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Hayekian
Re :   Obedience to authority

"... In the course of this discussion I raised the question of the ultimate abandonment the pay roll taxes in connection with old age security and unemployment relief in the event of another period of depression. I suggested that it had been a mistake to levy these taxes in the 1930’s when the social security program was orgiginally adopted. FDR said, “I guess you’re right on the economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those pay roll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program. Those taxes aren’t a matter of economics, they’re straight politics.” ..."  Luther Gulick


"World War II

Even before the United States entered the Second World War, increasing defense spending and the need for monies to support the opponents of Axis aggression led to the passage in 1940 of two tax laws that increased individual and corporate taxes, which were followed by another tax hike in 1941. By the end of the war the nature of the income tax had been fundamentally altered. Reductions in exemption levels meant that taxpayers with taxable incomes of only $500 faced a bottom tax rate of 23 percent, while taxpayers with incomes over $1 million faced a top rate of 94 percent. These tax changes increased federal receipts from $8.7 billion in 1941 to $45.2 billion in 1945. Even with an economy stimulated by war-time production, federal taxes as a share of GDP grew from 7.6 percent in 1941 to 20.4 percent in 1945. Beyond the rates and revenues, however, another aspect about the income tax that changed was the increase in the number of income taxpayers from 4 million in 1939 to 43 million in 1945.

Another important feature of the income tax that changed was the return to income tax withholding as had been done during the Civil War. This greatly eased the collection of the tax for both the taxpayer and the Bureau of Internal Revenue. However, it also greatly reduced the taxpayer's awareness of the amount of tax being collected, i.e. it reduced the transparency of the tax, which made it easier to raise taxes in the future. ..."

Source:  HISTORY OF THE U.S. TAX SYSTEM




04/26/2017 8:28 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Reply To alaskaone

Reply to alaskaone (04/26/2017 8:59 AM)

SS was never about forced savings or keeping granny out of the gutter.  It was about forcing the nation to accept employers becoming unpaid IRS agents.
Alaskans don't get oil money.  Where ever did you get that idea?  And how is it relevant?


B.S., we had gone thru the great depression & FDR wanted to make sure the soup lines were shorter the next time. Granted SS did morph into something else with all the exceptions, but as I posted the original intent was pure.

Every Alaskan who is a resident for at least a year gets a yearly stipend from oil, based on the interest the state collects from the oil company taxes. Have you applied for it ? Am I wrong or are you playing semantics again?



04/26/2017 12:11 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

Are you planning on donating 50% of your pension that the state put in, AK? How about your oil stipend, four in the family collecting is a lot of $.


04/26/2017 12:05 PM


alaskaone
Re :   Obedience to authority

SS was never about forced savings or keeping granny out of the gutter.  It was about forcing the nation to accept employers becoming unpaid IRS agents.
Alaskans don't get oil money.  Where ever did you get that idea?  And how is it relevant?


04/26/2017 8:59 AM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

More pap from the choir of Libertarians who somehow feel they are truly self-sufficient in a modern society. Social Security in its purest intent was a forced savings program to keep the minions off of the public dole. It is still required because the majority of people are not disciplined enough to save for retirement like you Libertarians are.


Another question for AK. Do you accept your yearly oil stipend, or is that immoral too?



04/26/2017 4:52 AM


Hayekian
Re :   Obedience to authority

 Neither of us are anarchists or anarcho-capitalists (the highest horse or most extreme form of Libertarianism).  We are both best described as moderate libertarians, or classical liberals.  Govols holds similar positions to ours.


04/25/2017 8:38 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

It really makes no difference, unless of course you are on the high horse of Libertarianism See phony-baloneys.


04/25/2017 4:00 PM


alaskaone
Re :   Reply To tommytalldog

Reply to tommytalldog (04/24/2017 11:35 AM)

You are a whore of the state & in exchange for your attendance you become eligible for a pension. My question to you is: do you contribute to that pension 100% or does the state match some or all of it?

Guilty as charged.  Not only did they offer a 50/50 split on the pension, they got me out of social security and that was what clinched the deal.  No one wants to be a CO so they have to make the pot sweet.
I would that every one be able to opt out of SS, it's unethical, immoral and unsustainable.


04/24/2017 9:15 PM


Hayekian
Re :   Obedience to authority

What difference does that make?  My private sector employer contributes a substantial amount to my 401K as well as providing a match for stock purchases.  That is part of the total compensation package.  It would be no different if I worked for any government entity - or if you became a career military man.

In all of those cases you earned what you earned through negotiation/agreement - that is not the same as being forced to pay FICA, for a program that pays you or your descendants nothing if you are unfortunate enough to die before you collect benefits.

The FICA burden falls heavily on the younger generation - and the benefits go to the segment of society that has the highest net worth.  This is a very strange "socialist" style program ...


04/24/2017 7:04 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

You are a whore of the state & in exchange for your attendance you become eligible for a pension. My question to you is: do you contribute to that pension 100% or does the state match some or all of it?


04/24/2017 2:35 PM


alaskaone
Re :   Obedience to authority

It is a problem.  Old folks be looting my kids so giving a bit of their money back to them seems appropriate yet by looting other kids myself, I contribute to the crime.

I own my retirement accounts.  There is no "contractual obligation" connected to SS or Medicare.


Sorry 


04/24/2017 1:36 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

I knew you would change your mind (ponder) as you go thru life, AK. You won't be a slave to principles when your time comes. Re: your pension, do you contribute 100%? If not, you are stealing eh? If you elect to take it of course.


04/24/2017 12:19 PM


alaskaone
Re :   Reply To tommytalldog

Reply to tommytalldog (04/23/2017 7:42 AM)

China is half & half eh? Their economy is certainly not commie inspired. Could you immigrate to China after you retire, Ak? Could you live there more free than you are now, without S.S. or your pension which you intend to donate back? Or you claim to at this time in your life.

Yes, I could retire in China and, yes, be more free in many ways.  I'm still pondering giving whatever SS plunder I might be eligible for to my daughters but I doubt it will be around in 17 years.  
My pension and retirement accounts belong to me, legally.  That is a stark contrast to SS accounts, those are a fictional sop to the gullible.


04/24/2017 11:04 AM


govols
Re :   When a plan come together....

Yeah, I've been wondering about expended car batteries serving time as home based solar and wind type storage. Not have to deliver full loads and extended ranges, they might serve well for residential grid tie systems.


04/24/2017 10:28 AM


govols
Re :   French Presidential Elections 2017

Can't wait to see if the "establishment" loses another one. News here suggests the French are really being pressured from all directions to go with Macron.


04/24/2017 10:23 AM


WRS10
Topic :   French Presidential Elections 2017


23 April 2017


The centrist Emmanuel Macron and far-right leader Marine Le Pen have won the first round of voting in French presidential elections, projected results say.

Mr Macron won 23.7%, while Ms Le Pen won 21.7%, French TV says.

The two saw off a strong challenge from centre-right François Fillon and the hard-left Jean-Luc Mélenchon, according to the projections.

The pair now face a run-off vote on 7 May.



04/23/2017 1:33 PM


WRS10
Re :   Reply To alaskaone

Reply to alaskaone (04/23/2017 3:41 PM)

What's the blowback from brexit?



Nothing much so far.


04/23/2017 1:12 PM


tommytalld
Re :   Obedience to authority

China is half & half eh? Their economy is certainly not commie inspired. Could you immigrate to China after you retire, Ak? Could you live there more free than you are now, without S.S. or your pension which you intend to donate back? Or you claim to at this time in your life.


04/23/2017 10:42 AM


alaskaone
Re :   Taxes, what you're getting for your money

Competition between states for people is a good thing. Those who think people looking to relocate do not eyeball the tax situation in potential new homes should really think again.


04/23/2017 9:45 AM


alaskaone
Re :   When a plan come together....

Well done.

Batteries... the bane of wind and solar.  The bloke that figures out a battery that doesn't die in less than 5 years and doesn't cost a zillion will be a very, very wealthy person.


04/23/2017 9:43 AM

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