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Title: Obedience to authority
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alaskaone
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(Date Posted:04/11/2017 9:00 PM)
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Blind, unthinking obedience to authority.

Right now, students must have a prescription or note from a licensed health care professional to use over-the-counter sunscreen products while at school. According to The Office of the Superintendent of Public Instruction, sunscreen is considered to be a medication because it is regulated by the United States Food and Drug Administration and is categorized as a "sunscreen drug product."

Kudos for this push to restore sanity go to Jesse Michener, the Washington mom who in 2012 sent her daughters Violet, 11, and Zoe, 9, off to an all-day school event on a day that began as rainy (it's Washington, after all) but then turned so sunny it burnt her kids fiery red when school policy forbid them to apply sunscreen—even as teachers slathered in on themselves. The Huffington Post reports:

Michener told The Huffington Post that adults made comments about her kids burning, but because of the law, did nothing about it. She wrote on her blog, "one of my children remarked that their teacher used sunscreen in her presence and that it was 'just for her.' So, is this an issue of passive, inactive supervision? Where is the collective awareness for student safety?" At the very least, a hat might have protected the girls, but, "alas, hats are not allowed at school, even on field day."

Because, you know. Hats!

And all this is even though one of the daughters, Zoe, has a form of albinism that makes her especially sensitive to the sun.

Skin is just skin, but rules are rules.

Cont...Five Years After Girls' Severe Sunburn, Washington Considers Bill to Let Students Use Sunscreen Without Doctor’s Note

I'm wondering how many people here defy authority... at all.  Even in the slightest.

Anyone?
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/20/2017 7:20 PM)

I barter and pay cash for stuff sometimes, thus avoiding some taxes from time to time. Does that count?
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Re:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/20/2017 7:21 PM)

 Absolutely.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/21/2017 3:38 AM)

Same on you, it is your patriotic duty to pay taxes. Render unto God what is God's, render unto Cesar what is Cesar's. You sound like a bunch of commies.
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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:04/21/2017 6:28 AM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/21/2017 12:38 AM)

Same on you, it is your patriotic duty to pay taxes. Render unto God what is God's, render unto Cesar what is Cesar's. You sound like a bunch of commies.

I do not think that word means what you think it means.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/21/2017 1:17 PM)

More likely you don't know, AK.
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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:04/21/2017 3:10 PM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/21/2017 10:17 AM)

More likely you don't know, AK.

Ever been to a communist country?

I have.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/22/2017 5:11 AM)

Ever been bitten by a  rattlesnake?
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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:04/22/2017 8:39 AM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/22/2017 2:11 AM)

Ever been bitten by a  rattlesnake?

If you have been bitten by a rattlesnake then I happily bow to your superior knowledge as to what being bitten by a rattlesnake is like.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/22/2017 12:40 PM)

Of course the point is you do not have to be bitten by a rattlesnake to know it's poisonous which was an analogy to your comment. I know you are smart enough to get the point & also to avoid being shown you are wrong.
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/23/2017 9:40 AM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/22/2017 9:40 AM)

Of course the point is you do not have to be bitten by a rattlesnake to know it's poisonous which was an analogy to your comment. I know you are smart enough to get the point & also to avoid being shown you are wrong.

Knowing, intellectually, what happens when a person is bitten by a rattlesnake is quite a different thing from experiencing it.

China, the last communist nation, is more notable for how the people there generally don't obey laws.  In point of fact, in daily life, Chinese are quite a bit more free than Americans.  Government, to them, is a nuisance to get around rather than an all powerful threat to be avoided.

That said, there are three Chinese curses... one of which is particularly telling.  They are:
  • May you live in interesting times.
  • May you get everything you desire.
  • May you come to the attention of authorities.


(Message edited by alaskaone On 04/23/2017 9:40 AM)
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/23/2017 10:42 AM)

China is half & half eh? Their economy is certainly not commie inspired. Could you immigrate to China after you retire, Ak? Could you live there more free than you are now, without S.S. or your pension which you intend to donate back? Or you claim to at this time in your life.
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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 11:04 AM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/23/2017 7:42 AM)

China is half & half eh? Their economy is certainly not commie inspired. Could you immigrate to China after you retire, Ak? Could you live there more free than you are now, without S.S. or your pension which you intend to donate back? Or you claim to at this time in your life.

Yes, I could retire in China and, yes, be more free in many ways.  I'm still pondering giving whatever SS plunder I might be eligible for to my daughters but I doubt it will be around in 17 years.  
My pension and retirement accounts belong to me, legally.  That is a stark contrast to SS accounts, those are a fictional sop to the gullible.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 12:19 PM)

I knew you would change your mind (ponder) as you go thru life, AK. You won't be a slave to principles when your time comes. Re: your pension, do you contribute 100%? If not, you are stealing eh? If you elect to take it of course.
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 1:36 PM)

It is a problem.  Old folks be looting my kids so giving a bit of their money back to them seems appropriate yet by looting other kids myself, I contribute to the crime.

I own my retirement accounts.  There is no "contractual obligation" connected to SS or Medicare.


Sorry 
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 2:35 PM)

You are a whore of the state & in exchange for your attendance you become eligible for a pension. My question to you is: do you contribute to that pension 100% or does the state match some or all of it?
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Re:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 7:04 PM)

What difference does that make?  My private sector employer contributes a substantial amount to my 401K as well as providing a match for stock purchases.  That is part of the total compensation package.  It would be no different if I worked for any government entity - or if you became a career military man.

In all of those cases you earned what you earned through negotiation/agreement - that is not the same as being forced to pay FICA, for a program that pays you or your descendants nothing if you are unfortunate enough to die before you collect benefits.

The FICA burden falls heavily on the younger generation - and the benefits go to the segment of society that has the highest net worth.  This is a very strange "socialist" style program ...
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Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise.

Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?

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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:04/24/2017 9:15 PM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/24/2017 11:35 AM)

You are a whore of the state & in exchange for your attendance you become eligible for a pension. My question to you is: do you contribute to that pension 100% or does the state match some or all of it?

Guilty as charged.  Not only did they offer a 50/50 split on the pension, they got me out of social security and that was what clinched the deal.  No one wants to be a CO so they have to make the pot sweet.
I would that every one be able to opt out of SS, it's unethical, immoral and unsustainable.
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There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/25/2017 4:00 PM)

It really makes no difference, unless of course you are on the high horse of Libertarianism See phony-baloneys.
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Re:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/25/2017 8:38 PM)

 Neither of us are anarchists or anarcho-capitalists (the highest horse or most extreme form of Libertarianism).  We are both best described as moderate libertarians, or classical liberals.  Govols holds similar positions to ours.
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Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise.

Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/26/2017 4:52 AM)

More pap from the choir of Libertarians who somehow feel they are truly self-sufficient in a modern society. Social Security in its purest intent was a forced savings program to keep the minions off of the public dole. It is still required because the majority of people are not disciplined enough to save for retirement like you Libertarians are.


Another question for AK. Do you accept your yearly oil stipend, or is that immoral too?

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/26/2017 8:59 AM)

SS was never about forced savings or keeping granny out of the gutter.  It was about forcing the nation to accept employers becoming unpaid IRS agents.
Alaskans don't get oil money.  Where ever did you get that idea?  And how is it relevant?
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/26/2017 12:05 PM)

Are you planning on donating 50% of your pension that the state put in, AK? How about your oil stipend, four in the family collecting is a lot of $.
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Reply To alaskaone
(Date Posted:04/26/2017 12:11 PM)

Reply to alaskaone (04/26/2017 8:59 AM)

SS was never about forced savings or keeping granny out of the gutter.  It was about forcing the nation to accept employers becoming unpaid IRS agents.
Alaskans don't get oil money.  Where ever did you get that idea?  And how is it relevant?


B.S., we had gone thru the great depression & FDR wanted to make sure the soup lines were shorter the next time. Granted SS did morph into something else with all the exceptions, but as I posted the original intent was pure.

Every Alaskan who is a resident for at least a year gets a yearly stipend from oil, based on the interest the state collects from the oil company taxes. Have you applied for it ? Am I wrong or are you playing semantics again?

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:04/26/2017 8:28 PM)

"... In the course of this discussion I raised the question of the ultimate abandonment the pay roll taxes in connection with old age security and unemployment relief in the event of another period of depression. I suggested that it had been a mistake to levy these taxes in the 1930’s when the social security program was orgiginally adopted. FDR said, “I guess you’re right on the economics. They are politics all the way through. We put those pay roll contributions there so as to give the contributors a legal, moral, and political right to collect their pensions and their unemployment benefits. With those taxes in there, no damn politician can ever scrap my social security program. Those taxes aren’t a matter of economics, they’re straight politics.” ..."  Luther Gulick


"World War II

Even before the United States entered the Second World War, increasing defense spending and the need for monies to support the opponents of Axis aggression led to the passage in 1940 of two tax laws that increased individual and corporate taxes, which were followed by another tax hike in 1941. By the end of the war the nature of the income tax had been fundamentally altered. Reductions in exemption levels meant that taxpayers with taxable incomes of only $500 faced a bottom tax rate of 23 percent, while taxpayers with incomes over $1 million faced a top rate of 94 percent. These tax changes increased federal receipts from $8.7 billion in 1941 to $45.2 billion in 1945. Even with an economy stimulated by war-time production, federal taxes as a share of GDP grew from 7.6 percent in 1941 to 20.4 percent in 1945. Beyond the rates and revenues, however, another aspect about the income tax that changed was the increase in the number of income taxpayers from 4 million in 1939 to 43 million in 1945.

Another important feature of the income tax that changed was the return to income tax withholding as had been done during the Civil War. This greatly eased the collection of the tax for both the taxpayer and the Bureau of Internal Revenue. However, it also greatly reduced the taxpayer's awareness of the amount of tax being collected, i.e. it reduced the transparency of the tax, which made it easier to raise taxes in the future. ..."

Source:  HISTORY OF THE U.S. TAX SYSTEM


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Comment: Part of the present problem in Washington is the lack of compromise.

Response: It's always better for the bully when the bullied does not resist, isn't it?

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Reply To tommytalldog
(Date Posted:05/02/2017 2:20 PM)

Reply to tommytalldog (04/26/2017 9:11 AM)

Reply to alaskaone (04/26/2017 8:59 AM)

SS was never about forced savings or keeping granny out of the gutter.  It was about forcing the nation to accept employers becoming unpaid IRS agents.
Alaskans don't get oil money.  Where ever did you get that idea?  And how is it relevant?


B.S., we had gone thru the great depression & FDR wanted to make sure the soup lines were shorter the next time. Granted SS did morph into something else with all the exceptions, but as I posted the original intent was pure.

No, T-dog.  Direct withholding of income taxes by employers was fdr's goal.  "Old age insurance" was the means he used to attain that goal.

Every Alaskan who is a resident for at least a year gets a yearly stipend from oil, based on the interest the state collects from the oil company taxes. Have you applied for it ? Am I wrong or are you playing semantics again?

No, T-dog.  Part of the royalties received from oil companies for what they take are used to buy stocks, bonds and real estate... meaning, Alaska has created a gigantic mutual fund. 

Each eligible Alaskan receives one share of that mutual fund.  On a five year average, part of the returns generated by the fund are divvied up among Alaskan residents and the state government.  This was done as a way to protect the fund from looting by politicians.  By, 'looting', I mean liquidating the fund for temporary gain.

The theory was that if the citizens of Alaska had a concrete stake in the survival of the fund, it would be much more difficult for politicians to squander it. 

And that has proven true until this year when our governor arbitrarily confiscated about 1/2 of the disbursement.  It remains to be seen whether or not he'll get away with it because we, Alaskan's, are trying to defy authority.






(Message edited by alaskaone On 05/02/2017 2:24 PM)
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There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:05/02/2017 3:24 PM)

OK, so you & your family members are eligible, do you partake in your share of the "mutual fund?" Or do you feel that this is immoral as well as other government programs.  By you past posts it would seem that your family is eligible for 4 shares.
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:05/02/2017 5:33 PM)

We have all received PDF's.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

tommytalldog
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:05/02/2017 7:28 PM)

I figured that. Are you a member of the Yukon Party?
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alaskaone
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:05/03/2017 10:12 AM)

Nope.  Why?y
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Come to the Dark Side.
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The advantage of insinuations over hard arguments is that they bypass critical thought. No one can respond precisely to a charge that is utterly vague or to accusers who will envelope any reply in a poisonous fog of further insinuations. ~ David Warren, The Guardian

There was a time when there was enough freedom that it hardly mattered which brand of crooks ran government. That has not been true for a long time and that captures an important point. The more powerful the government becomes, the more people are willing to do in order to seize the prize, and the more afraid they become when someone else has control. ~ Glenn Harlan Reynolds

tommytalldog
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Rank:TAE Member
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From: USA
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RE:Obedience to authority
(Date Posted:05/03/2017 11:37 AM)

Figured you would, that's all. They are the anarchists that think AK can make it on it's own while taking everything they can from the Feds. Like spoiled children.
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