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Title: Histamine Intolerance 


Woah....I just found out about this new product (Histame) that I'm going to try. Its actually not new but just recently (in March) became available in the US and Canada.

I talked alot about histamine a couple of years back and had some testing done to check blood and urine histamine levels. The "lab" that I went to to get the samples done was a total joke, the nurse was heinous and I never got the results of my bloodwork because I switched doctors.

Anyways, back then is when I realized histamine was an issue and started avoiding high histamine foods and then pretty much all "amines".

My primary symptoms are caused by histamine releases to food and chemical triggers. This has been going on since the beginning. I have not figured out any way to ease these reactions because once my bucket drains....it very quickly fills up again and then I'm overly sensitive to chemicals and everything else around me.

Last month I was reacting to everything and was completely overloaded. There are other things besides high histamine foods that cause histamine levels to rise. Glutamates can also raise histamine levels as can sulfites and other preservatives/additives.

Histamine (like any toxin) needs to be broken down and excreted.....which cant happen when the enzyme which breaks it down becomes blocked or deficient. When the liver is overloaded by toxicity the excess histamine and other toxins are not eliminated.

I notice when histamine reactions go up (usually because of foods eaten) I will then become more sensitive to perfumes, etc.  Without a doubt the histamine is putting a big burden on my liver....same as when I get overly stressed and adrenaline runs high...these chemicals remain in the body much longer than they should due to my sluggish liver.

Like the problem with salicylates there hasnt been much I could do about it except avoid the foods. Tonight I came across this new product and I'm not really gonna get too excited about it because I do not know the exact reason or metabolic issue that is responsible for the histamine intolerance in my situation. I also dont know how well this product actually works.

If a part of my problem is lack of enzyme function (a very probable scenario) then this may do some good in reducing food reactions and in turn would take a big burden off of my liver. I'm not holding my breath but I'm definately gonna try it out.

It does have fillers/binders which I probably wont tolerate but if the reason that I react to these things has to do with an inability to break down histamine....then the product should help.

Unlike Ketotefin or other antihistamines...(even natural ones like vitamin C)....Histame doesnt just block the histamine....it replaces the enzyme that may be deficient (for whatever reason).  Something like this, together with ketotefin may actually bring some relief since most of my histamine reactions are coming from foods eaten.

In my case these are not IgE allergies (Histame wont work for true allergy) and they are not IgG mediated food intolerances either. So if the immune system isnt producing antibodies which are causing these reactions that can only mean that some enzyme is not functioning properly and chemicals are accumulating which under normal circumstances would not be happening.  Thats why I focused on amines and salicylates a long time ago...because no antibody reactions are occuring (according to my tests)....and reactions are not consistent....and vary greatly from one day to the next.

Heres some info about histamine....there is also more info. in the OMG thread if anyone is interested.

Histamine Intolerance
Not all food intolerance involves IgG-antibodies. Many food products contain histamine in large amounts, and if the body cannot break down this histamine sufficiently, it crosses the intestinal wall and enters the blood stream. Here it can cause symptoms which are comparable to allergy. This is because histamine acts as a hormone, and is responsible for the allergy symptoms associated with “true allergy.” In allergic reactions, histamine is given off by certain white blood cells, which overreact to the presence of certain harmless substances in the bloodstream.

The body normally produces an enzyme called diaminoxidase (DAO), which breaks down histamine. If the production of this enzyme is, for one reason or another, insufficient, the intake of histamine containing food and drink can cause an increased histamine level in the blood, which causes allergy-like symptoms. Foods which contain histamine can also cause symptoms if they contain substances which cause the body’s white blood cells to release histamine.

Many medicines inhibit DAO, and therefore lead to histamine build up in the body. This is also true of alcohol, which both increases the intestine’s histamine absorption and inhibits its breakdown. Alcohol together with histamine rich food therefore causes worsened symptoms. Histamine in food is not broken down by cooking or freezing.

Examples of food and drink with high histamine content: Red wine, champagne cheese, yeast / baking powder, salami, fish (especially conserves), spinach, and sauerkraut. A rule of thumb is that the older, more mature, or more prepared food is, the higher the histamine content. For example, fresh fish contains very little histamine. The content of histamine in red wine can also vary greatly; some wines cause symptoms while others do not. Symptoms from red wine are due to its tyramine content.

Examples of food with little histamine, but with the ability of stimulating the body’s release of histamine: Cocoa / chocolate, tomatoes, strawberries, citrus fruits, pineapple, kiwi, mango, buckwheat, crabs and shellfish, nuts, sunflower seeds, vinegar, and mustard.

Examples of additives which can stimulate the white blood cells to release histamine: Glutamate (E620-623), benzoate (E210-213), sulphites (E220-228), nitrates (249-252), as well as some food colourings.

Symptoms
The symptoms of histamine intolerance can be: Stomach pain, diarrhoea or constipation, intestinal gas, headache / migraine, runny nose, itchy eyes, various rashes, itchiness, tiredness, nausea, dizziness, concentration problems, and low blood pressure. They can start after a few minutes or after a few hours and there can come in varying degrees. Their frequency and severity varies from day to day, from person to person.

I have all of these symptoms (except stomach pain and dizziness) but most dont bother me....its mostly the headache/migraine/swelling and skin irritations which include burning more than itching. The low blood pressure sucks too because I think thats what brings on my drop in body temp. and chills after eating.  Bad reactions cause concentration problems.

I also think the flushes I get may be due to excess histamine...which is why I experienced alot of that last month when I was reacting to everything.

My reactions vary depending on the food or chemical involved. Some will cause migraine but no kind of noticeable skin stuff.  Free glutamates in processed foods cause welts on my face...not alot....just one or two at a time and they only last a day or two as long as I dont continue to eat the food. Sulfites will cause some skin stuff too. I dont know about the rest but I can pretty much expect some mild skin stuff whenever I eat processed foods. It doesnt bother me like the swelling/headache/pressure does.

This is the link to the Histame...

http://histame.com/

I dont think it will work miracles but hopefully it does *something*.

I found out about it here...
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/treat/T444777.html

and this link tells a little about the DAO enzyme.
http://www.digitalnaturopath.com/cond/C701409.html

If I can somehow slow down all of these reactions to stuff I eat I think my life would be pretty normal because I dont have any other disabling symptoms. Some days I feel almost completely normal and the next day I can have pain/swelling, chemical sensitivities, etc.....and its all having to do with what I ate.





Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 00:01 AM

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I just ordered it. Its expensive for only 30 pills. We'll see what happens.....there are alot of ingredients that I normally would not do well with.

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 00:17 AM

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Found more info. on DAO. I had always thought that MAO was the enzyme responsible for degrading histamine but apparantly I was wrong about that.  If excess histamine is the main problem I have with inflammation then it makes sense that too much of certain foods seem to damage and inflame my gut....resulting in more reactions and weight loss.

This page has alot of  info. http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/85/5/1185
It does state that flushing can be a symptom of histamine toxicity. These are other interesting tidbits:
"the main cause of histamine intolerance is an impaired enzymatic histamine degradation caused by genetic or acquired impairment of the enzymatic function of DAO"

"Gastrointestinal diseases with altered enterocytes also may cause decreased production of DAO."

"Lower DAO activity has been discussed as a potential indicator of intestinal mucosa damage in inflammatory and neoplastic diseases"


Histamine intolerance results from a disequilibrium of accumulated histamine and the capacity for histamine degradation. Histamine is a biogenic amine that occurs to various degrees in many foods. In healthy persons, dietary histamine can be rapidly detoxified by amine oxidases, whereas persons with low amine oxidase activity are at risk of histamine toxicity.

Diamine oxidase (DAO) is the main enzyme for the metabolism of ingested histamine. It has been proposed that DAO, when functioning as a secretory protein, may be responsible for scavenging extracellular histamine after mediator release. Conversely, histamine N-methyltransferase, the other important enzyme inactivating histamine, is a cytosolic protein that can convert histamine only in the intracellular space of cells.

An impaired histamine degradation based on reduced DAO activity and the resulting histamine excess may cause numerous symptoms mimicking an allergic reaction. The ingestion of histamine-rich food or of alcohol or drugs that release histamine or block DAO may provoke diarrhea, headache, rhinoconjunctival symptoms, asthma, hypotension, arrhythmia, urticaria, pruritus, flushing, and other conditions in patients with histamine intolerance.

Symptoms can be reduced by a histamine-free diet or be eliminated by antihistamines. However, because of the multifaceted nature of the symptoms, the existence of histamine intolerance has been underestimated, and further studies based on double-blind, placebo-controlled provocations are needed. In patients in whom the abovementioned symptoms are triggered by the corresponding substances and who have a negative diagnosis of allergy or internal disorders, histamine intolerance should be considered as an underlying pathomechanism.

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 00:37 AM

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Hi Rachel,

I'm assuming you've tried the low histamine diet... have you noticed any improvement? 

http://www.urticaria.thunderworksinc.com/pages/lowhistamine.htm

Some people with chronic hives (urticaria) find that a low histamine diet helps a LOT.  Others don't notice much of a difference because their hives are autoimmune.  I'm not saying this is what you have... just one example of a disorder caused by continuously high levels of histamine.

Another possibility... have you considered that you might have a mast cell disorder?  Having too many mast cells or trigger-happy mast cells can cause the symptoms you listed:

The symptoms of histamine intolerance can be: Stomach pain, diarrhoea or constipation, intestinal gas, headache / migraine, runny nose, itchy eyes, various rashes, itchiness, tiredness, nausea, dizziness, concentration problems, and low blood pressure. They can start after a few minutes or after a few hours and there can come in varying degrees. Their frequency and severity varies from day to day, from person to person.

You might want to check out this website, which is not just for people with mastocytosis (too many mast cells) but any kind of mast cell disorder.

http://www.tmsforacure.org/


Starflower posted on 05/10/2009 07:13 AM

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Hi Starflower

Yes, I've pretty much avoided the high histamine foods for more than 2 years now but I have problems with salicylates as well as synthetic food chemicals so its just too many foods that I have to avoid and impossible to live that way.  I havent really followed these diets as a way of life but always with the hope that some answer will be found and this situation will improve.

I dont know if it would be a mast cell disorder since reactions are dose related and the offending food chemicals accumulate and circulate which always had me thinking more along of the lines of enzyme dysfunction. I dont really get what I would describe as "attacks".....its more subtle than that. Symptoms will be mild unless I continue to burden my system. Its only when I get overloaded that I become very sensitive to everything.....as if my liver is struggling to detox. I end up feeling very toxic or poisoned.

In the past I kind of dismissed mast cell disorders but this time I will request to be tested just to be sure. My feeling has always been more along the lines of toxicity rather than allergy related problems. This is mostly because my symptoms came on after having 2 amalgams drilled out unsafely and  then having gold crowns put in which were in direct contact with two remaining amalgam. This is when I started to experience alot of neurological symptoms and within a few weeks of having the crowns put in I had to go on disability and many many symptoms kept me from having any kind of a life for 2 years that I couldnt work.

I developed MCS, food intolerances, yeast/fungal issues, etc.  I got much much better by significantly reducing my exposure to chemicals and with diet changes. Even if there is a mast cell disorder I would have to assume something triggered that (heavy metals, bacteria, fungi) and so these triggers would probably need to be addressed in order for any kind of recovery to be possible.

During the same time that the dental work was done I had also been trying to become pregnant and had begun taking prenatal vitamins and folic acid. When I first looked into histamine restricted diets and things related to histamine overload I learned that persons with high histamine levels should not ever take folic acid as this will significantly increase histamine. I kind of put that thought on the back burner for a long time but have been thinking about it again recently since everything went downhill for me in April, after having several months of feeling pretty good.  I had taken folic acid and B12 which seemed to cause me alot of problems and both can raise histamine levels.

I have methylation issues and this ties in with having either high or low histamine levels. I will need more testing to get more clear answers on this. FIGLU, blood histamine, mast cells.....those are things that I'd probably want to have tested.

My liver is burdened and having excess histamine (or excess anything) is not helping me.

I had read that persons with high histamine should avoid the folic acid but methionine may be helpful. My methionine levels are on the low end and blood levels of both SAMe and SAH are low.....so definately that part of the methylation cycle is impaired. I also have several genetic mutations with enzymes involved in methylation as well as P450, glutathione conjugation (GST1) and other enzymes involved in liver detoxification.

I think there are many factors involved but I'm hoping that if I can figure out what will help bring histamine down that will take some of the load off.

It seems like Mastocytosis is a rare condition but many people are labeled with having a "mast cell activation syndrome or disorder".....even though they have normal amounts of mast cells. I'm sure I could qualify for that type of diagnosis but as long as the mast cells are within normal range I would assume that there is some underlying condition causing these reactions (unrelated to mast cells). It would be similar to MCS....and the treatment is the same...avoidance....but I believe that there is always an underlying reason for this.

The reactions in MCS can seem like allergic reactions....but they are not. Its an inability to clear toxins so it is more of a toxicity issue even if symptoms seem allergic in nature. I think MCS could also be labeled as mast cell activation as there really are symptoms that occur as these toxins circulate through the body and they probably do activate the mast cells.

It think true Mastocytosis is progressive in nature and the mast cells continue to develop. I have actually gotten better and am fully functionable now so I'm doubtful that I could have a true mastocytosis condition. I cant get a skin biopsy because I dont get hives, rashes or itchy bumps. I only occassionaly will get a small welt (usually on my forehead or temple area and it goes away sometimes within a few hours). My skin symptoms are more commonly broken capillaries and burning sensations rather than hives or itching.

So there's a little history as to how all of this began for me. I got sick when I was 31 and in a few weeks I will be 38. I was pretty bad off the first couple years and I had my remaining amalgams and the two crowns removed after 1 year because many of my symptoms seemed to be linked to my mouth and I was tasting metal, feeling a hot gas around one tooth and experiencing electric like shocks (galvanic reaction). I got put on antibiotics several times and never for an actual infection. The antibiotics made my situation much worse and this is when chemical and food sensitivities became out of control. I do have dysbiosis so my gut is not in the best shape and I do have malabsorption.

I abandoned conventional medicine because I was only getting worse, I got myself alot better on my own with diet and chemical avoidance. I returned to work full time almost 4 years ago. I barely ever miss a day of work now and I usually put in more than 40 hours, have tons of energy and feel pretty normal except for my extremely restricted diet. I only feel bad when my system is overwhelmed with toxins but with having such a restricted diet I tend to binge on the things I shouldnt have and it doesnt take much for my system to become overwhelmed. When I feel good its easy for me to feel like I can eat anything. Sometimes I get away with it and sometimes not.....but I dont always feel the effects immediately so its hard to stop if I'm eating something as wonderful as pizza!

Ok...I see that you've written your introduction so I'm off to read that now. :)
Welcome to our small but cozy group!







Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 11:32 AM

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This is just random info. that I've come across regarding high histamine....mostly related to methylation issues. I found alot of it interesting and it can definately explain some things in my own particular situation.

I have always felt that I fit the description of a person with high histamine (for the most part). Type A personality, driven, works compulsively, perfectionist, high sex drive, fast metabolism, slim, big appetite, etc.  Depression is not an issue but it definately shows up when I'm overloaded.

Something has always caused a ravenous appetite with no weight gain even before I was sick (basically my whole life). When I found out I had an overactive thyroid I assumed that was the explanation but nothing changed even with thyroid ablation. My body is pretty much the same shape as when I was a teenager and I think its part of the reason people think I'm younger than I am.

I could also sometimes hear my pulse in my head when I would lie down....I would also hear whooooshing type sounds kind of like waves in my head. I could make it happen by lying down or applying slight pressure to my temples or other areas in my head. This was going on way before I got sick.  Only recently (like in the last year) I linked it to histamine because it comes on when I eat high histamine foods. This is one of the symptoms listed as a sign of high histamine.

I think its a strong possibility that the folic acid supplementation contributed to the stress on my detoxification system at a time when I was most vulnerable/susceptible to toxicity (mercury exposure).

According to my genetic results and my labwork my methylation cycle would be impaired at the top of the cycle where methionine should be converted to SAMe and on down to homocysteine and through the transulferation pathway.  First I am "challenged" when it comes to generating B12 to start this process....so methionine is low....and the metabolites that are generated from methione are also low. These are important amino acids that are needed in order to detoxify heavy metals and chemicals such as histamine.

My Dr. had me starting on Folic acid/B12 and this got me worse. I dont know if its a CBS issue, a histamine issue or both. I do think there was a significant increase in histamine after taking these supplements.  He did not want me taking methionine or SAMe because he wanted to see if my body was able to do the work itself....and if methionine/SAMe levels would increase on their own with the addition of folate/B12.

Thing is...if excess histamine is causing my symptoms folic acid and B12 will make that worse....whereas supplementation of methionine and/or SAMe should make it better. 

One reason I put histamine/folic acid possibility on the backburner is because much of what I'd read indicated that high histamine = low copper and low histamine= high copper.  This is because copper degrades histamine so in a person with high levels of copper the histamine levels can be lower than normal and vice versa.

Since I have high copper I figured maybe high histamine was not possible....even though it seems like an obvious thing based on symptoms. From what I read today its definately possible to have elevated copper AND high histamine. Both of these things can be caused by different factors and I imagine that by attempting to reduce copper (as I was doing with molybdenum last month) the histamine could go even higher (as I seemed to experience last month).

I think it would be good to get with my Dr. again to discuss all of this and possibly get some testing done.

It might be beneficial for me to take methionine since this is already low and it increases histamine breakdown resulting in lower blood levels of histamine. Methionine also lowers blood levels of copper. These could both be high in part because of impaired methylation and a strong need for methionine and SAMe.  It could backfire though if I am unable to oxidise sulfur efficiently (methionine and SAMe are both sulfur containing amino acids).

Right now I am thinking of histamine as a bigger factor in my symptoms than sulfur because my levels of cysteine and other sulfur bearing amino acids were all pretty low....but it could be because I avoid sulfur foods and supplements. The low levels doesnt mean there is no problem with sulfur accumulating.

So these are some tibits of info.

Folic acid can cause a cascading histamine reaction and folates are known to cause the release of histamine.

High histamine can be linked to OCD behaviors.....which I have experienced in the past. Funny thing is every once in awhile I will have a day when I start to feel OCDish....but it goes away. Its related to diet infractions so could be after high histamine foods. I never really payed attention to that.

One thing that I have noticed is that some foods will counteract the histamine reaction. So if I have a migraine or other symptoms and I eat something....it may totally kill the reaction. Its always exciting when that happens but other times I can eat something that will exacerbate and prolong the reaction.  So definately some food chemicals/nutrients can stop the histamine reaction and others which are probably either high histamine or histamine liberators will exacerbate symptoms.

Yeast can raise histamine levels (as will other pathogens I'm sure). Also, glutamates can raise histamine levels.

Methionine is an essential amino acid needed for neutralizing toxins and liver detoxification.

Methionine reduces copper levels.

Methionine is needed to transport selenium (I have extremely low levels of RBC selenium).

Methionine converts to SAMe.

Histamine speeds up metabolism.

Methionine lowers blood levels of histamine by increasing histamine breakdown.

Methionine is used for patients with high blood histamine, depression, high copper, high cholesterol, chronic pain, allergies and asthma. There is a tendency for low methionine in these conditions.

Methionine detoxifies epinephrine (I've posted alot about suspected probalems with detoxing epinephrine).

Water is the best antihistamine known!  This I believe to be true because after lunch I have my Penta water with me constantly. I freak out if I dont have it because it TOTALLY helps to relieve symptoms that may have been triggered by my lunch. I also find that I NEED to have it if I'm reacting to strong perfumes. The Penta water helps me but I never had heard of it being an anti-histamine.

Methionine serves to decrease histamine. It methylates and thus detoxifies histamine and many heavy metals.  It offers some of the same benefits as H2 blockers.

Magnesium helps relax musclesand stabilze mast cells, preventing them from bursting and releasing a flood of histamine. WOW....I wonder if that is the reason the mag. sulfate cream helps me so much after eating! It definately cut down on the amount of reactions as well as the severity.

In contrast calcium stimulates mast cells to release histamine in individuals with chronic inflammation. I have definately experienced this myself with calcium but I believe it may be because calium can trigger excitotoxicity which in turn may trigger release of histamine.

I'm going to investigate all this as much as possible in the near future.

(Message edited by Rachel24 on 05/10/2009 15:23 PM)

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 15:17 PM

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Interesting ideas...

I do wonder if my anaphylactic attacks started because my gut was finally healing (on the gluten-free, dairy-free, corn-free diet) and I started aborbing my vitamins.  Along with calcium and omega 3s I've been taking a daily prenatal vitamin... 800mcg of folic acid.  I started taking sublingual B-12 in January to see if it would help with fatigue since the numbers on my thyroid, hemoglobin, hematocrit, and ferritin were all fine.  I was having a hard time getting up in the morning... actually sleeping through alarms.

Interesting about the high levels of histamine and OCD.  Allergy symptoms (asthma, hay fever, sinusitis) and OCD run in my dad's family.  I get that whooshing/heartbeat sound in my ears when I lay down too.  I never thought about it being connected to something besides maybe too much earwax.

I still think it's a great idea to have some testing for mastocytosis.  It's totally possible to have it and not know because you don't have dramatic attacks... just chronic leakage from your mast cells (the symptoms are easy to attribute to other things).  I'm not sure it's as "rare" as it's made out to be.

Makes me want to rethink all my supplements!  I'm eating quite a healthy and varied diet... maybe I should just stop them for a while and see how I feel (although I do think the vitamin D and fish oil are OK).

This might be totally random... but have you read anything about histamine being connected to proteinuria?

Starflower posted on 05/10/2009 17:05 PM

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I havent read anything about histamine and proteinuria. I actually have never heard of proteinuria so will have to look that one up.

I think my health would have been ok if not for the dental work. I cant say for sure but up until then I had no sensitivities at all. I had never been sensitive to any foods or chemicals. I had never experienced headaches or any type of chronic pain. Sickness or health problems was just not something that I'd ever really gave much thought to because I considered myself to be very healthy.

I think genetic susceptibility is always a factor in chronic illness but not by itself. If not for the environmental exposures and other factors that come into play...we can get by without getting sick. So, for me I would say that my diet, lifestyle, stress, exposure to pathogens and heavy metals played upon the genetic weaknesses that I was born with.

This happens more frequently nowadays as we are all exposed to more chemicals and environmental toxins than ever before. Autism would be an example. The genetic weaknesses are certainly there (in every kid).....but they have always been there even when Autism was unheard of.

I will definately see about getting tested for mastocytosis but I do believe that the histamine is more related to methylation status and possibly enzyme dysfunction due to damage in the gut or genetic weakness. The DAO enzyme which breaks down histamine in the intestine is not something that I ever had tested since all of genetic testing I've done was with regards to the liver and detoxification.

Heavy metals block enzymes....mercury can block any enzyme system in the body...which is why when we already have slower functioning enzymes (due to our genetic make-up) the heavy metals can come into the picture and create a situation where systems that were once a little slower functioning then become significantly impaired. That would be more of an aquired enzyme deficiency even if there was already a "weakness" there to begin with.

An example is the enzyme which is responsible for the breakdown of gluten and casein....DPPIV. This enzyme is known to be very sensitive to mercury and is easily blocked/inhibited by mercury. Then you end up with symptoms of gluten and casein intolerance which would never have been an issue without that exposure.

From what I have read studies have shown that a very high percentage (forgot the exact number) of those who have high histamine in blood have low DAO activity....so the ability to degrade histamine is usually impaired.

Besides that, everything else I've read pretty much points to methylation status. There is alot of talk regarding high histamine levels on the Autism boards where methylation is discussed. So high histamine definately can be related to impaired methylation. Impaired methylation is already confirmed for me with testing that I've had done and it is also a factor in all cases of Autism.

I do think that the mast cells are triggered by alot of things which wouldnt occur if the body were able to detoxify efficiently. So I think there is likely a combination of increased histamine release due to lots of toxins, etc circulating in the blood stream...as well as an impaired ability to degrade the histamine and get rid of it.

I definately feel that folic acid makes things worse for me. I take a handful of B vitamins and have no problems with them but I had major problems in the past with any B-complex which included folic acid. I have problems when I try to take folic acid by itself. So far I have not ever been able to take it for more than 1 or 2 days before I get noticeably worse.

I have not seen any similar health problems occuring in my family but then I'm not familiar with relatives on my dads side. His family is quite large but I am not in contact with my relatives on that side of my family. I do know that addiction runs high on that side of my family. My dad has been addicted to drugs and alcohol his whole life and his father was also alcoholic. I was addicted to cigarettes....but never drugs or alcohol. I had the problems with OCD along with symptoms of hyperactivity but had always attributed it to hyperthyroidism but I do recall having those whooshing/pulse sounds in my head at night even back then.

These are more symptoms of high histamine but I think in most cases not all of these symptoms are present. I will mark any symptoms that I have or have had with an *


 Signs, symptoms & indicators of Histadelia
(Histamine High):

 Allergy

* Excess mucous: Histamine can cause additional mucus
production.

Good tolerance of cold 

Poor tolerance of heat

* Unexplained nausea

* Poor pain tolerance

* Excess/abundant saliva in mouth

* Hyperactivity: Histamine speeds up metabolism producing a
tendency towards hyperactivity.

 Frequent colds/flus

 Phobias

* Being highly motivated: Those with elevated histamine
(histadelics) tend to work compulsively.

* A hard-driving personality: Histadelics tend to work
compulsively.

* Good creativity/imagination: Histadelics are often
highly creative.

* Strong sexual desire

* Joint pain/swelling/stiffness

* Excess perspiration

* Warm skin

Conditions that suggest Histadelia (Histamine High):

 Allergy: Allergic Rhinitis / Hay Fever

* Depression: Histadelics are often chronically and
suicidally depressed. (This was only when I was very sick)

* Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder (OCD): Histadelics are often
prone to obsessions, compulsions, and addictions.

* Addictions / Addictive Tendencies: Nutritional treatment
for drug and alcohol users will depend on the results of a
test for blood histamine levels. In one series of such
analysis, all users proved to have high histamine levels,
leading the scientist to conclude that this abnormality -
with its impact on brain function - is a major force in
creating addiction. [Nutrition Guide for the Prevention
and Cure of Common Ailments and Diseases, Carlton
Fredericks, PhD. p.58]

* Headaches

* Insomnia: The overarousal seen in histadelia may
contribute to insomnia.

* Muscle Pains (Myalgia)

* History of unexplained nausea

Slender fingers / toes: Histadelics often have long
fingers and toes.


(Message edited by Rachel24 on 05/10/2009 20:37 PM)

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 20:34 PM

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Oh...I forgot to mention in my last post that calcium is sometimes used as a treatment for high histamine along with other things such as methionine. I guess its because calcium can release excess histamine that is stored in tissue....once its in the bloodstream it can be degraded by methionine. My experience with calcium has been bad but I have low levels of methionine and SAMe and have not ever supplemented these. This is stuff I'm going to bring up to my Dr. when I see him.

Heres a link to some info. about high histamine.

http://forum.lowcarber.org/showthread.php?t=64775

I have more coverage when seeing conventional Dr.'s (mine are not conventional) and for the mastocytosis testing I think the regular Dr. should be able to test for that right?  I try not to see those Dr.'s but I'm due for some routine check-up stuff.

I spend alot of time on Dr. Amy Yasko's Autism board and I'll post some of the things that I've read there regarding high histamine. Alot of people post about this because of having so many allergies as well as having high histamine levels in blood or urine. These are some quotes from her posts in response to questions asked by members. Most people posting there have had genetic testing done so some of the stuff she's talking about refers to a persons genetics.

Unfortunately I cant post any links because nothing can be seen unless you're a member of that forum.


"I gave a talk in October 2006 in Boston, entitled Stress and Aggression where I spent quite a bit of time covering the histamine connection.

In terms of histamine, the use of SAMe can often be helpful.

Based on his AHCY status, I would check methionine levels on his urine amino acid test. I find that once we do get methionine in better balance for those with AHCY that some of the histamine issues tend to decrease.

I did not suggest the Folapro as I would like to get the rest of his system in balance first, since that seemed to trigger some of these behaviors."

" I have worked with children who were both COMT - - as well as COMT + + with high histamine. High histamine suggests to me that the methylation pathway is not supported as well as it needs to be."

This quote is from another Dr. (not Yasko):

"Effective "markers" for methylation are (1) whole blood histamine, available from Quest and LabCorp; (2) Absolute Basophils, available from Direct Healthcare, Inc in the Chicago area.

Elevated histamine and/or elevated basophils indicate undermethylation. Review of symptoms and medical history can bolster the diagnosis. For example, most undermethylated persons exhibit seasonal allergies,
perfectionism, strong wills, slenderness, OCD tendencies, high libido, etc.

The SAM cycle in which dietary methionine is converted to SAMe (the primary methylation donor in the body), and then to homocysteine, is a dominant cascade of reactions in methylation and also is very important in production of glutathione, cysteine, and other aspects of sulfur chemistry.

Most persons with depression, oppositional defiant disorder, OCD, bipolar disorder, or schizophrenia exhibit a genetic abnormality in methylation..... which appears to be central to their illness."


"Optimal methylation is needed to break down histamine involved in allergic reactions."

"First realize that there is a relationship between histamine and the methylation cycle. It ties together at FIGLU as well as carnosine and anserine to the formation of histidine which can convert to histamine. The use of SAMe for those that will tolerate it can really help with allergies. Since detox can increase in the summer due to increased levels of vitamin D (effect on dopamine) as well as increased BH4, you may want to consider some extra SAMe or methyl donors in the summer months."

"Quercetin helps to prevent the degranulation of mast cells. The mast cells are the ones that are like water balloons, filled with histamine. Also butterbur (in Petadolex) helps with this area too. "

"There is an inverse relationship between histamine and methylation in many cases. Once we get the methylation cycle under control he should have less allergy issues."

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The reason I'm thinking its more related to impaired methylation is because the situation has actually improved with avoidance of high histamine foods and other things that trigger the release of histamine. At one time (about 4 years ago) I was so overloaded that I was reacting to everything....including dust, my pets, cigarette smoke from like a mile away, the heater in the house and car, car exhaust, and on and on. My head was just full of pressure and my nose was affected by everything. I think my histamine levels were probably through the roof at that time.  

By focusing on reducing the load of toxic exposures (so less things are circulating my system) the histamine levels must have went down because I am not that affected anymore. Most things that were bothering me at that time are not even an issue now.

Now it is mostly foods that are still an issue....and this might be due to a combination of low DAO and impaired methylation.  I would like to have blood histamine levels tested before trying methionine or SAMe to see what changes (if any) occur. My histamine levels may also be increased due to gut infections (I have fungal issues)and with impaired methylation it would be more of an issue. There would be more of a build-up....not just of histamine but toxicity in general.

I think with mastocytosis the situation would not improve so dramatically because the mast cells would continue to take over since it is a progressive condition. Without taking any type of antihistamine I dont know that it would have been possible for me to experience so much relief from the histamine overload by simply reducing the load of toxicity in my body.

The toxic burden is still high....very high....but not as bad as it once was and I still have not yet begun to support the methylation cycle.....which I believe is crucial.

I do like to have testing done of all kinds...and I've had a ton of stuff done since all this began....so I'm definately going to see about the mastocytosis. I think the more testing the better so I really dont dismiss anything that could be a possibility for me.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention and I'll let you know when I get my appt. set up. :)


(Message edited by Rachel24 on 05/10/2009 21:54 PM)

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 21:52 PM

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Heres a link to an article about Histame....the product that I ordered.
http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS24662+12-Mar-2009+BW20090312

If this actually works (and I guess that would depend on whether or not low DAO activity is an issue for me and if the product is effective) it would change EVERYTHING for me!

I would actually be able to go out to eat without having to worry so much....which means I would be more open to dating.

I would assume that if histamine is not breaking down in the gut it would be causing damage.....which would partly explain malabsorption issues and weight loss that occurs after eating the offending foods.  Its weird because I've probably had more compliments on my figure in the past year (I have no idea why) than ever in my life! I dont care because I *know* that I'm not healthy and that I am not having proper nutrient absorption and I could use some extra lbs. on me.

Even if the product improves my situation it wont be all that I need to do but I'm hoping that it could maybe take some of the burden off of my system, help my gut to heal some and reduce overall toxicity as a result. If I were less reactive hopefully finding supplements that dont set me off would be less of a task.  I think if this helps my gut and addressing methylation cycle helps with detoxification I'll be in a much better place.

I'll post about it when I get the Histame and start using it. I expect to react to it initially but we'll see what happens after that.

Rachel24 posted on 05/10/2009 23:29 PM

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Thanks for the longer explanation!

These things are SO complicated... the cause can be different even when you have the same symptoms.  I always try to keep that in mind.

I noticed that having high absolute basophils is a marker for impaired methylation.  Mine are fine!  My last CBC (done in March) showed a level of 0.1 (reference range 0.0-0.5). 

In fact, out of all the testing I've had... repeated CBCs and CMPs, urinalysis, stool analysis, ANA, sed rate, RF, Sjogren's antibodies, ACTH stim, thyroid... the only numbers that are currently abnormal are:

- Low positive ANA (probably related to my thyroid)

- 30mg of protein in a random sample of urine (microalbuminuria)

Everything else is PERFECT.  Which is great... but it doesn't explain why I'm having anaphylactic attacks ;)  I'm still waiting on the results of a chest x-ray and a urinalysis for 5-HIAA (a component of serotonin, which can be released in abnormal amounts by people with carcinoid syndrome or systemic mastocytosis)... but I don't think they're going to show anything.  Just a hunch.  I had a scare earlier this year over an enlarged lymph node... a biopsy said it wasn't cancerous, but the only way to know for sure was to take it out.  Turned out to be 100% normal.  Perfectly, perfectly normal.  Which... again... is great, but I was hoping for some answers. 

Starflower posted on 05/11/2009 06:22 AM

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