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Tigger Post subject: TIMELINESPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:08 pm
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:48 pm
Location: Philadelphine Mansions
Provided by KazLux
The McCanns pick their children up at the Ocean Club’s creche. 7.30
Madeleine and the twins go to bed. 8.30
Gerry and Kate arrive at the Tapas restaurant. 8.45
Russell, Matthew and Rachel Oldfield go to the restaurant. 8.55
David and Fiona Payne also arrive at the Tapas (Did Dianne Webster arrive with them?) . According to David, all the elements of the group were already there. But Rachel assures that Matthew arrived two or three minutes after the Paynes. 9.00
Matthew went to check on the children. 9.05
Gerry left the Tapas to check on his children. around 9.05 p.m. When he entered the apartment the children were fine, he just noticed that the door to their bedroom was partially open. He looked at the window, which was closed, just as the shutter. 9.10/15-ish
Jane Tanner (either was on her way to the tapas bar or went to check on her children and) notices a man walking hastily, carrying a child. She memorizes the suspect, but fails to recognize Maddie. 9.10/15-ish
When Gerry is returning to the dinner, he meets Jeremy Wilkins ��?an english man he met during the holidays ��?and chats with him for ten minutes. Neither Gerry nor Jeremy notice Jane or the suspicious man that she says she saw, although they were all on the same narrow street at the same time. 9.25
Gerry returns to Tapas. Russell told PJ that at this time Matt and he went to check the children. 9.20/30
Mathew Oldfield goes to check on the children, enters the room, sees the McCann children fast asleep, and notices nothing out of the ordinary. Russell O’Brien leaves the restaurant at the same time. In the first statements, Matt does not refer anything strange in Madeleine’s room and Russell fails to explain that he stayed in his apartment because his younger daughter was feeling sick. Later, Matt said that he noticed more light in the McCanns��?apartment and Russell revealed his daughter was vomiting. 9.30
Gerry invites Najova Chekaya (entertainer in Ocean Club) to the table (quiz is over) 9.30 - 10
pm according to Najova Chekaya nobody left the table, but one of the chairs was vacant (Mathew's/Russell’s?). 9.35
Matthew Oldfield returned to Tapas. 9.45
Jane Tanner says at this time ��?not at 9.30 ��?Matthew and Russell left the restaurant. 9.55
Russell returns to the restaurant. 10 pm
Kate discovers disappearance of Madeleine. Madeleine had vanished from her bedroom and the twins were sleeping like nothing had happened. She goes back to Tapas and raises the alarm. Kate found Madeleine gone and the shutter of the rear window open. Trish Cameron, McCann’s sister, said: “Kate came screaming back to the group crying, ‘They’ve taken her, they’ve taken her��? Gerry was crying and roaring like a bull.��?(times online, may 6).
Gerry thought “that can’t be right, that can’t be right��? He went running up to the apartment with Kate and checked everywhere she had already looked, and made a quick run around the apartment block. http://tinyurl.com/ypsw7h
Everybody leaves the restaurant, except Dianne Webster. 10.05
Dianne Webster goes into Maddie’s room. The twins are sleeping.
According to Felicia Cabrita (on TV 10/9) diane, the mother of one of the payne's, the old lady in the group, when got to the apartment and kate was saying the window and shutters were open, went to the window from the outside and tried to lift the shutters. Impossible. They would not move. The staff explained that the shutters have already 14 years of sun and rain and they were not possible to open from the outside without breaking. 10.11
That Sky had been given access to the kidnapping before the Portuguese police was confirmed by a police source:"Someone within the McCann circle phoned from the Ocean Club the night of the crime to Sky News' representative in the Algarve. The call took place at 22.11. We were warned of the disappearance at 22.40." http://tinyurl.com/3atagq
10.15 Dianne returns to Tapas, to pick up her purse and her camera.
They decided straight away to call the police but had no idea what the emergency numbers were and, anyway, could not speak Portuguese.
They asked one of their friends in the group to go down to the main reception, which is manned 24 hours, and call the police. The call was made at 10.14pm or 10.15pm, according to the McCanns. http://tinyurl.com/ypsw7h
Between 10.00 and 10.50 pm
The first call that Gerry made on the night of the crime was to Alistair Clark, a good friend from university days and a diplomat who is close to Gordon Brown. Clark made contacts at the highest level and - before Policia Judiciaria - already Sky News and the British Ambassador were being informed about the abduction. http://tinyurl.com/2975ep
Between 10.00pm and 10.50pm, dozens of people came inside Mccann's apartment (friends, other guests, staff from Ocean Club) alarmed and willing to help in the search of Madeleine.
Times online, may 6: John Hill, the Ocean Club manager, said the alarm was raised by the family between 10pm and 10.15pm: “The staff, many guests and the best part of the village started looking right away, a total of 40 to 65 people. The police were called and started taking details from the family and then took the decision to escalate the search.��?
Ms. Batista recalled that the twins were still asleep in their two cots and there was the small, bright pink wool blanket that Madeleine likes to hold when she sleeps. “We walked out quickly so as not to wake up the twins. The parents immediately said, ‘She’s been kidnapped��?��?said Batisa."
Exact time unknown, estimated time 10.20: mrs. Fenn, the neighbor upstairs notices a commotion downstairs: “She looked over the balcony and saw the child’s mother. She was in a state of panic. She was repeatedly saying ’We’ve let her down. We’ve let her down.��?- “All the people in their group were running in and out of the apartment. She (mrs. Fenn) asked someone if she should call the police and was told it had already been done.��?
- First call to GNR Lagos precinct (Guarda Nacional Republicana, rural police);
The first call to Police Precinct of GNR (Portuguese Rural Police) in Lagos, reporting a missing child and asking for Police help was made at 10.50pm
and a patrol was sent, arriving at Ocean Club 12/15 minutes later
, according to Lieutenant-Colonel Costa Cabral, Head of Public Relations of GNR (email: firstname.lastname@example.org
- Tel: (+351) 213 217 046). 11h00/11h05 pm
- A GNR patrol arrives at Ocean Club (two men);
Gerry calls his sister Trish: “It was my younger brother Gerry distraught on the phone, breaking his heart. He said: ‘Madeleine is abducted, she’s been abducted��? ‘They kept going back to check the kids every half hour. The restaurant was only 40 yards away. He went back at 9 o’clock to check the children. They were all sound asleep, windows shut, shutters shut��?
Kate then went over to the two-bedroom ground-floor apartment and ‘came out screaming��? said mrs. Cameron. ‘The door was lying open, the window in the bedroom and the shutters had been jimmied open��? http://tinyurl.com/27mgmp
“They think someone must have come in the window and gone out of the front door with Madeleine." http://tinyurl.com/2x94zt
- GNR patrol calls CID in Portimão, reporting a possible kidnapping 11.30 pm
"Paul Moyes, 58, from Middlewich, Cheshire, was among those who helped to look for the missing child: “At 11.30pm
there was a knock on the door and there was a distressed gentleman saying that a child had been abducted and could we help with the search. Everybody got involved.��?http://tinyurl.com/2sw44o 11h30/11h40 pm
- A CID team leaves from Portimão to Praia da Luz 11h40/11h50 pm
- The CID team arrives at Ocean Club
When the call was made to CID headquarters, in Portimão (20 miles from Praia da Luz), there was only a stand-by night shift of two CID officers. It's normal, at this time of the year (May...). Population in Algarve multiplies by ten, during summer time. So, Police (GNR, rural police; PSP, urban Police, CID and other emergency services, like paramedics, firemen, etc, etc) is reinforced only 2 weeks before the beginning of summer. The two CID officers called other colleagues that were on a "medium" stand by (at home, but ready to be called in an emergency) and a 4 men team (2 CID inspectors, 1 photographer and 1 expert in collecting digital fingerprints) was sent to Ocean Club, arriving there between 11h40 and 11h50 pm
others say: 00.00 am/midnight, police arrive "The police arrived at around midnight and by that stage we were already out looking. There were uniformed police, plain clothes and even off duty local officers who joined in."
0.10 police start operation and call PSP, PJ, Border and Immigration Services and Faro Airport.
"Silvia Batisa, head of administration at the complex, helped to comfort the family and interpret their interviews with the police: “The parents were devastated, in a panic. They wanted more police and dogs immediately. Kate said all the time, ‘Please find my daughter��?and ‘Madeleine is beautiful��?��?
There was substantial searching involving tourists and locals for some hours. Kate remained in the apartment hoping for news, while Gerry went out and looked. http://tinyurl.com/ypsw7h
Sometime between midnight and 0.30
Gerry calls Kate’s parents: “Gerry rang me and said how desperate the situation was. He said it was a disaster. And at first I thought there had been a car accident. And then he said no, and when he told me that Madeleine had been abducted from her bed in the hotel, I just said ‘No��? He said ‘I’m serious, Sue��? He said everyone in the complex was searching for Madeleine. He was really, really upset. http://tinyurl.com/yqfhzy
Sometime between 0.30 and 1 a.m
Kate calls her parents (sol 18/ “I had a phone call from Kate asking me to contact Fr Paul Seddon. He’s a friend of Kate and Gerry’s. Paul married Kate and Gerry and baptised Madeleine and she needed to speak to him��? http://tinyurl.com/yqfhzy
Felícia Cabrita said (on tv, 10/9) that kate called her parents at midnight complaining that they were all alone. That is strange, being a lie, because all the staff and holliday makers were with them looking. The gnr was already there and pj was on the way.
Sometime between 0.30 and 1 a.m., Aurelio Guerreiro, the owner of a bar at the marina in Vilamoura got a phonecall from an old customer: Pat Perkins, the human resources director from a public English organism. She calls him, upset: “She told me the daughter of british friends of her, who were vacationing close to Lagos, had disappeared over 3 hours ago, that they were completely alone and that nobody was helping them to search for her��? Pat confirms she was at Kate’s parents house at the time (sol 18/
Sometime between 0.30 and 1 a.m. Gerry asks for the priest from the Luz parish to be called for him ��?but the Ocean Club staff members refused, given the time it was. (sol 18/
Jon and Michelle Corner: “She phoned at about 3am.
She just blurted out that Maddie had been abducted. “She said, ‘They’ve broken the shutter on the window and taken my little girl��? She’s still devastated. She’s very upset that the police don’t seem to be doing anything.��?http://tinyurl.com/25j5dz
the police had packed it in for the night. The searching was pretty much over. Gerry and Kate were frustrated and desperate. http://tinyurl.com/ypsw7h
At four in the morning, Jane was asking a member of GNR: “Have you cut off all the roads already?��? Minutes later, Gerry, given the fact that the priest didn’t appear, asked another element of GNR to show him the way to the church. (sol 18/
Madeleine's father was also seen, in the early hours of May 4, near the temple with another British man who was with him on vacation. (CM 12/9)
The searches continued until around 4.30am
, when a shattered Mr and Mrs McCann were ushered back into their apartment, which, despite it being a crime scene, had not been sealed off at that stage. http://tinyurl.com/2jjtst
Later, at about 6am,
the McCanns went out alone and walked around the scrubland on the outskirts of the village, holding hands and calling Madeleine’s name. There was nobody else around and they felt utterly alone. http://tinyurl.com/ypsw7h
'early hours of may, 4th'
"Close family friend Jon Corner, of Liverpool, told how tearful Kate sobbed down the phone early yesterday: "Someone has taken my little girl." Jon, godparent to the McCanns' twins, said: "She was in an absolutely hysterical state - very, very distressed. She blurted out Madeleine had been abducted. "Kate said the shutters of the room were smashed. Madeleine was missing It looks as though someone had gone straight past the twins to get to her." http://tinyurl.com/2qe7sh
Jill Renwick has known the couple since they all worked together at a Glasgow hospital more than a decade ago. She spoke to Kate at 7am
on the morning after Madeleine vanished: "She just said, 'Help me, please help me'. She said, 'We've been searching all night until 4.30am
, and then everybody left us'. At that stage there was only one police officer at the door. They didn't know what to do. So I phoned GMTV." http://tinyurl.com/33ro4t
Jill Renwick, told GMTV: “They were just watching the hotel room and going back every half-hour and the shutters had been broken open and they had gone into the room and taken Madeleine. They went out about eight, went back in at nine, they were fine, went back in at 10 and she was gone.��?http://tinyurl.com/296ryf
Jill Renwick moved fast. She “phoned the McCanns' wider circle of friends, who mobilised to phone anyone they could think of to beg for help. Renwick's sister called someone she knew in CID, someone had a connection with Des Browne, the defence secretary��? according to The Guardian, on its June 2 edition. Contacts start rolling on, and BBC Newsnight presenter Kirsty Wark and Gordon Brown's brother were alerted about Madeleine’s disappearance, in the following 24 hours. http://tinyurl.com/ytq6yf
The Night of the Kidnapping
Interactive timeline, courtesy of Sol
Campaign for Magic Knickknocks for women everywhere
Takealook Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:34 am
New In Town
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:09 pm
Posts: 62 This is something that I began but never completed and because this is a thread to post theories on I will do just that in its unfinished form.
I will try to add points that were to be developed in skeleton form at the end. Each point will be numbered.
Here is a theory for your consideration. I have included explanations but of course any theory would have to be tested.
On Saturday 10th of November I took my computer to work as I knew that there would be some non productive time that could be used to read some old Mirror forum posts about the disappearance of Madeleine McCann.
My attention was drawn to the time period from 8.30 to 10.00pm.May 3rd. As I looked at the page it stared back at me back in blank confusion. No idea whatsoever.
On reading further the Irish man Martin Smith came across as being one of two credible independent witnesses, this for me presented a clue, a spark of inspiration. Of course we the public, as well as being bombarded with lots of false information, do not know all of the facts. The exact time of the sighting would be important to either reinforce or discount the theory. As I do not have this knowledge I decided to develop the train of thought anyway. The other credible witness is Jeremy Wilkins the television producer.
Also the discoveries of the British sniffer dogs must modify any theory and bring it back to the fact that Madeleine died and remained in the apartment for at least two hours. This if you like is the third credible witness.
Before continuing I would like to establish two definitions:-
1) An accomplice = a person or persons known to the McCann’s
2) An abductor = a person unknown
Of Martin Smith it is reported
“One of the relevant testimonies within this investigation is the one from Martin Smith, an Irishman who resides in Luz and who says that, on the night of May 3, he crossed ways with a man who was carrying a child. She seemed to be asleep, and both were going in the direction of the beach.��?Quote from an article by Felicia Cabrita.
This statement was the catalyst for the theory developed. However I am aware that we can only use what has been reported and do not know if this information is true or not.
Also the time that Martin Smith supposedly saw the man carrying the child towards the beach would be important for the following reason. Perhaps he witnessed the corps of Madeleine being carried away from the apartment by an accomplice.
The time this happened would be important and relevant in order to compare with the movements of the Tapas 9 as reported.
Whatever the time of day Madeleine died it would most likely be thought safer to remove her body under the cover of darkness. Also the use of a vehicle parked close to the apartment would be risky due to identifying features. Therefore to remove Madeleine would require her to be carried further away and possibly around a corner out of the line of sight. This tactic would work both ways because any one seeing the child being put into the vehicle would not know where they came from.
The statement by Jane Tanner that the abductor was Caucasian would match that of the accomplice and agree with any witness that might have seen him. But her later statement that the abductor did not look like a tourist suggests an effort to divert suspicion from her own group. Also there was an earlier statement where Jane Tanner was reported to have described the abductor as carrying a child away covered by a blanket which is what the accomplice would do if carrying away the lifeless and possibly bloodied Madeleine. However she later describes the abductor carrying the girl in full view wearing clearly definable pajamas.
Another point is that of the faceless abductor. My take on this is that if Jane Tanner did know the accomplice she would obviously not want to describe him. A fictional face could create problems. For example if a possible witness saw the accomplice they could dispute the description and also it would be a limiting factor when attempting to implicate an innocent person. Best to leave it open.
Martin Smith is reported to have described the child being taken in the direction of the beach. Jane Tanner on the other hand said she was taken in the opposite direction towards Murat’s house.
No matter what time Jane left the table and it is not known what time she returned if at all I believe that she left with a pre arranged story and was unaware that Gerry had met with Jeremy Wilkins at the time and place she had specified.
On leaving the children alone.
1) With the passing of time fresh information emerges and it is now likely that Madeleine was carried out of the apartment in the blue hold all. However what follows is the train of thought developed at the time of formulating the theory.
2) If Madeleine was still in the apartment waiting to be moved under the cover of darkness it would be more likely for it to be kept locked.
3) There seems to be a pattern of giving information that directs away from reality.
4)So could it be that Gerry went to open the door for the accomplice and on his return met Jeremy wilkins.
For this reason it was said that the abductor had gained entry through the window but because no sign of a break in had been detected then it had to be admited that access had been gained through the door.
5)Because there is conflicting information by the Tapas 9 on the method of monitoring of the children it could suggest that this was not a normal practice even though it was said to be developed from previous holidays together. (From notes. Checking of children not normally carried out but on this occasion a story was necessary. A regular routine would be clear in the statements but conflicting stories indicate not familiar with idea of checking the children. It was probably agreed among them selves but details and method not clarified.)
6) Who in the group had an apartment in direction of beach (or any other location after sighting of the Irishman.)
7)From notes. It could be feasable that Jane Tanner seeing the abductor was a prearranged story. However Gerry's chance meeting with the TV Producer happened to be at the time agreed. Being an independent witness not aware of what was going on he told the truth that no one had passed with a child. They did not see Jane so therefore she would not have seen them and therefore would not know about changing the time of the ''sighting''. Hence the contradiction in testimonies.
From notes. Gerry leaves Tapas Bar to open door for O'Brian who departs shortly after Gerry returns. (Apartment would not be left open if Madeleine's corps inside.) Original statement to claim that abductor came through window to conceal fact that access by accomplice had been provided by Gerry. However obvious sign that shutters not forced led story to be changed that door left open.
This was posted last night but cannot find it so here we go again.
bjr Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:53 pm
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2007 2:10 pm
Posts: 2697 Hi takealook I moved it to the Madeleine forum as a New Theory.
Here is the link
Welcome to the3arguidos....Proud to be part of the Forum
The truth is out there, and maybe, one day someone will speak the truth, if they have any respect for Madeleine.
thentherewere4 Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 8:54 am
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:11 pm
Posts: 445 7)From notes. It could be feasable that Jane Tanner seeing the abductor was a prearranged story. However Gerry's chance meeting with the TV Producer happened to be at the time agreed. Being an independent witness not aware of what was going on he told the truth that no one had passed with a child. They did not see Jane so therefore she would not have seen them and therefore would not know about changing the time of the ''sighting''. Hence the contradiction in testimonies.
This is my exact interpretation too,Tanners inconsistencies in her testimony,only make sense if you look at it from this perspective.Tanner was briefed about seeing the abductor (all a pack of lies) and hence the discrepancy with Wilkins statement,he was telling the truth there was noone there and they hadn't counted on Wilkins being in the road at that exact time.The cover story was blown apart by chance.Wilkins really was in the wrong place at the wrong time as far at the Mccanns and Tanner was concerned.
This confirms my theory that the body was moved way before this.
January Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:06 am
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:26 pm
Posts: 220 Reading the above timeline it occurred to me -
Why didn't they want Jeremy Wilkins to help search?
According to JW partner Bridget, JW was not called on to help search
In the timeline Paul Moynes was asked to help search at 11.30pm
I presume they may have known JW better than PM as Gerry had spoken to him only hours before the disappearance and they were tennis partners.
Someone did go to JW apartment at 1.30am to say Madeleine was missing but still did not ask him to search even though, by all accounts, the search was still in full swing.
That does not appear to make much sense.
thentherewere4 Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:50 am
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:11 pm
Posts: 445 Interesting to note also that the Gorrods were not asked to search that night either.
The searchers were a select band were they not?
thentherewere4 Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 11:52 am
Joined: Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:11 pm
Posts: 445 JWs OH said their services were not required on the search..they were turned down.
KazLux Post subject: Re: TIMELINESPosted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 3:04 pm
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2007 6:13 pm
Location: NL I've always found this strange: someone 'frantically' knocks on the door of the Wilkins appartment - in the middle of the night. To let them know that a child was missing, and that help was NOT required.
WHO was knocking, i wonder? And: why?